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Discussion in 'Gear & Equipment' started by faffi, Aug 12, 2013.
skids are good though
Look out for Angels http://www.motorradonline.de/motorr...ourensport-reifen-testergebnis/461388?seite=8
I reckon tyres make the biggest difference out of anything you can change on a bike. Just look at racing, everyone can be on the same make of tyre but with different compounds, and if you pick the wrong compound you will be slow.
So here's my limited experience. I ride a DRZ400E supermoto at a track (about 40HP, 140kg wet). Originally I had Michelin Pilot Road 2's on it (sports touring tyre). They felt good on the road, but once on the track they had problems. Chatter from the front and rear and not much grip on either end. I found the limits of the tyres, had a few near crashes and lost the front and slide off the track once. The tyres were getting torn up and weren't going to last long on track duty. I took them off while they still had ok tread.
For the next tyres I went with Pirelli Diablo Supercorsas. They are a road legal track-day tyre, they use them to race on in WSS. The chatter went away, grip levels were massive in comparison. When they did slide they slid smoothly. I tried an SC1 and SC2 compound on the rear, both worked well, one had slightly better wear. The softer compound survived about 270km of trackday use, the harder compound about 350km. The soft front survived through both sets of rears although at the last track day with the worn out front I crashed. I lost the front in a turn with a bump and slid off the track.
The difference between the road legal track tyre and the sports touring tyre was huge. On the short track I went from a ~29 to 26s lap time. On the long track I went from a ~32 to ~29s lap time.
I am the fastest road legal bike and the fastest bike on street tyres. This is despite being up to 10HP down and 20kg heavier than the 450’s. Now I wonder if I could keep up with the proper race bikes if I ran slicks and tyre warmers?
There was also a good example of the difference between slick tyres recently too. Jesse Wacker rocked up (a reasonably fast rider that raced in the ASBK) with his brand new TM SMX450Fi. It is supermoto porn, but it came with Golden Tyre slicks. I don’t know if they were crap or Jesse couldn’t get his head around how they felt, but he was slow. I could keep up with him on the DRZ, so he was riding at my pace. You can see in this video (where he bins it) that he wasn’t comfortable.
The next week he came back with Dunlop slicks fitted to the bike, and proceeded to lap about 3 seconds quicker (23s lap of the short track).
Now I need to decide what tyres to get next for the DRZ.
I reckon it depends on who is doing the riding. I'm slower on my race bike that a stock road bike can be ridden on road tyres. conversely, on my shitbox old TRX850 + road tyres I am enourmously faster then some club racers. So maybe 30% lap time differences where as (IMO) tyres are worth maybe 5% from touring tyres to the best slicks you can buy
Personally I'm very happy with pirellis. In my experince the difference between SC1s and SC2s compared to UK N-tecs (the best tyres I've used) is almost negligible over a 1 minute lap at broadford or Wakefield. Bigger difference is with each new vs old, which is still probably only a second. Superbike guys race on both competitively.
Backmarker finished on the podium in the Czech Republic using Golden Tyres.
I've never found much difference between the stickiest supersport tyres and slicks... maybe on a 1000 the few grooves make a difference. But then I've never used the latest generation low-pressure slicks.
I agree with your basic point though, on the track, track tyres are better :up:
PS: on a 250, Dunlop was always the best. They had tyres specific to the light bikes and they were way better, even at GP level. I believe their SM tyres are descendants of those 250GP tyres. So it's not just slick vs tread that is the issue.
and having siad all that about how little anything matters, a mate who rider reasonably dropped over 5 seconds at braodford by changing his R6 for a GSXR600. The actual nominal performance difference between each is negligible, but there was a transformation is his confidence. Might be something do do with R6's lack of fork springs :lol: anyway, I think once you can confidently push whatever your hardware is, the differences become small
The extreme is my 1980s spec TRX and mid 2000s spec GSXR1000. The gsxr is set up better than the TRX, has 100 extra HP, has working suspension etc, and the lap times diff is 3 seconds over 1 min on a slow track, and maybe 6~8 seconds at PI. The bikes are enourmously different and feel about 20 seonds apart, and the gsxr requires 100% more effort to ride :lol:
Goldspeeds (Maxxis).. and even better, I bought them second hand they are date stamped 2008 :up:
At the ulster GP wet sessions I finished ahead of a lot of faster guys in the wet on a 10+ year old front wet and a 6+ years ole 90% fucked rear, and in the "dry" (in Ireland dry is subjective) I set some awesome times on old Metzler Rennesports, what many would consider to no longer be a sports tyre :shrug:
I actually really like the Goldspeeds, but I'm riding on whatever I get cheap, and this year it's working
NOw it's working the other way, all the 250 guys are using SM derived tyres.
It was the big thing I noticed with the GP bike when I started doing the Hillclimb stuff, we had to fit treaded tyres, so I went with the dunlop 211gp (I think ?) .. and just never liked them . The never played up, but I just never got comfortable. Fitted some metzelers, made for light bikes, and straight away felt MUCH better. And the times showed it. Put the Dunlops on the Duc, with double the weight, and they felt good, a different tyre. So construction matters..
What Antti said about confidence cannot be overstated. You can see what Crutchlow and Marquez can manage due to tons of confidence, and what Rossi couldn't do with no confidence for a couple of seasons. That's what I like with my old 650, now that I have finally managed to get comfy with the new way of riding - I just know it will stick and also that it will not bite. If it could be cornered as fast as a Gixxer it would of course be a different scenario, but both I and the bike are happy at a moderate pace
I have PP 3's on my old RC36 and couldn't give a shit about lap times. My concern is when I'm scratching around the back roads and get things slightly wrong, I want the largest margin possible for extra grip when having to go past my comfort zone. The better the tyre the better for me thanks. Plus it's about confidence. I'm not good enough to push the bike or tyres to their limit (and recognise I'm there) so I want to know there is a big margin left.